AdrianS wrote: ↑31 Aug 2019, 14:16Simptom: motocicleta pornește, dar moare pierzând scânteia pe ambii cilindri imediat ce depăşeşte turația de ralanti. Adineauri am remarcat că acest lucru se întâmplă în același moment în care mi se stinge martorul de încărcare:
https://youtu.be/yaOc87ggaaU
Care să fie legătura? Am un scurt ciudat în încărcare care-mi taie aprinderea?
Am mai făcut ceva arheologie pe internet.
Într-un topic deschis în 2015 pe advrider, un individ pe nume
Ola descrie aceleaşi simptome: nu are scânteie când se stinge martorul de încărcare. A verificat mufe, a schimbat senzorul Hall, releul regulator şi aprinderea electronică - toate fără rezultat:
Ola wrote:R100RS -81
Have problems with the engine dies when the charging light goes out. It starts and runs fine but when I increase the rpm and it starts charging it stops, dies suddenly. Have checked the connections, changed charging relay, ignitonmodule. If I remove the carging relay then the engine can have a high RPM. If I disconnect the blue wire from the charging lamp I also can have a high RPM.
I have run about 5000 km without any problems. So dies the bike suddenly and this problem emerges.
Please I need help.
Pe topicul său apar discuţiile despre potenţialii suspecţi: kill-switch-ul, contactele din mufa cu trei pini a senzorului Hall (şi senzorul în sine), contacte imperfecte la masă etc. Acelaşi domn a făcut ulterior un test (amănuntele se pierd niţel în explicația lui, nefiind vorbitor nativ de engleză) prin care a anulat circuitul de încărcare şi a remarcat că motocicleta îi merge din nou bine. Începe să suspecteze puntea redresoare după ce testează semnalul ei cu un osciloscop:
Ola wrote:I have now connect a separate battery to the bike, and charging only that, not the bike battery. Then everything works fine. The bike runs normally and charging of the other battery is good.
Then I hook up an oscilloscope and then I can see big voltage spikes. They should not be there. I think the diode bridge is defect with load. I have ordering a new one. I get back to you. Thank you very much for all input, I really preciate it.
Creşte bănuiala grupului că senzorul Hall pe care l-a folosit să înlocuiască originalul (
CHYME56, produs de ChenYang Technologies GmbH & Co. KG) este hipersensibil la câmpul electromagnetic produs de alternator când acesta începe să încarce. Aceeaşi firmă produce totodată o variantă mai rezistentă la câmpuri EM a aceluiaşi senzor. Apare următorul comentariu:
Stan_R80/7 wrote:I doubt the ChenYang Technologies GmbH & Co. KG manufacturer anticipated another company (or user) installing one of their Hall effect sensors next to an alternator. That is likely why they have made a CYHME56C model. It seems, the OEM Honeywell sensors are no longer made and only available from used ignition parts. I expect the BMW engineers recognized they were putting a magnetic field effect sensor next to an alternator. Most people don't understand (or appear to care) why that would make a difference - or the basic physics behind the Hall effect and Hall effect sensors. I don't think the CHYME56 hall effect sensor will ever work correctly as part of the BMW airhead ignition without modification. There may be a way to make a Faraday cage (shield) for the sensor with conductive paint, but that fix would likely be temporary. Good luck!
Ola revine într-un târziu cu veşti bune (pentru el): a comandat senzorul îmbunătăţit CYHME56C, l-a înlocuit pe cel de dinainte şi motocicleta îi funcţionează din nou corect:
Ola wrote:I have now solved the problem. Sorry for very late response.
I experienced that the motorcycle died. I could only run the engine until it started to charge. Took me home 100km in 40km / h.
It turned out that the ignition hallsensor stopped working when the generator started charging. Probably because of the magnetic field. I ordered a new sensor from
http://www.hallsensors.de/Hall-Vane.htm
http://www.hallsensors.de/CYHME56C.pdf
You can read about it here:
http://www.bmwklubben.se/forum/viewtopi ... kt#p184357
At first I tried with CYHME56 but it was also too sensitive to the magnetic field. I then tried with CYHME56C which worked perfectly. It is less sensitive to magnetic fields. As you can see from the pictures I mounted the sensor in a slightly different way with M2.5 screw.
Here some more reading:
http://www.bmwklubben.se/forum/viewtopi ... 6C#p184358
Since then, the motorcycle has gone very well and several thousand km.
Another motorcycle friend had the same problem. He first bought original parts. These turned out not to work and to be defective. He then acquired CYHME56C and had a workshop replace the original hallsensor. After that, the motorcycle worked perfectly again.
Într-
un topic pe care l-am deschis pe advrider legat de această problemă, a început de câteva zile şi o suspiciune legată de puntea redresoare:
motu wrote:Alternator ripple ? The AC waveform is still present after rectification, too much and it can interfere with other sensors. This is a test some meters give. Many years ago I had a Subaru in with random faults, and Alt ripple was very high, I took a risk and replaced the alt, and it was all good.
Warin wrote:The signal from the bean can is ~10 volts peak to peak. That is the only electronic sensor the airhead has.
On a Subaru you have knock sensors ... 1 to 2 volts.. temperature sensors 0.1 volts etc etc ..
Interference has a much better possibility on a Subaru than a BMW airhead due to the signal size and the number of signals.. I'd think your bad alternator might have a bad diode board..
motu wrote:Yeah, it was the temp sensor getting hit, it was a sizeable ripple, about 4v.
ccmickelson wrote:So in that case would the problem not stem from a faulty diode board on an airhead? He could determine how much, if any, AC is present by putting a multimeter set on low AC on the battery terminals or maybe better the output of the diode board?
Se sugerează proba deconectării alternatorului de la instalaţia motocicletei:
bmwrench wrote:I'd temporarily disable the alternator by unplugging the DF terminal. I'm wondering about the condition of the 3-pin terminal from bean can to engine harness.
Warin wrote:The bike will run on a fully charged battery for many miles (no headlights etc, just the normal stop lights, indicators). Easy test as per bmwrench above.
Momentan aici am ajuns cu săpăturile. Sfaturi, păreri? Să mă grăbesc să trag concluzia că Hüco-Hitachi-ul meu e prea sensibilicos? Din păcate, nu-mi permit luxul aruncării cu portofelul în problemă până când se rezolvă, fiindcă voi sărăci rapid; ca idee, chinezii din Germania (
) vând acel senzor îmbunătăţit cu vreo 140 lei.
Off Topic
@luca.stere, dumneata
l-ai sfătuit aici pe-un creştin să-şi actualizeze releul regulator şi puntea redresoare cu nişte componente aftermarket? În paralel, am început să mă gândesc şi eu la schimbarea pieselor respective (chiar şi numai preventiv), dar află că nu găsesc acel cod pe internet...
petre81. wrote:In mod normal puntea de diode este pe motor, sub capacul din fata de la aprindere, deasupra alternatorului. Unii baga puntea, sau schimba cu alta punte pt ca aia de BMW e o caruta de bani pt ce face si le monteaza sub rezervor unde sta ferita de vibratii si caldura. Poti sa schimbi releul cu unul electronic aftermarket care este de de o suta de mii de ori mai bun in sensul in turatii mici gestioneaza mult mai bine incarcarea, gasesti la Bardi Auto cod: MBVRB191 cca 60 lei.
Hai că poate-mi vine şi mie somnul...